In this episode of the Here Below podcast, pastor Matt Wireman and Dr. Luke Stamps discuss the theological depth and practical application of the Lenten season. The conversation focuses on moving beyond mere "sin management" to a life of hopeful repentance and active service.
Matt: Welcome to another episode of here below. This is a podcast ministry. I guess you could call it that of Christ the Redeemer Church in Greenville, South Carolina. And my name is Matt Wireman. I'm one of the pastors at Christ the Redeemer, and my co-host here is Luke Stamps. Doctor Luke Stamps, uh, who is uh, along with his wife, one of our community group directors, and has been a faithful member at Redeemer for several years and and is a friend. And I consider it a great privilege to call you a friend. And we, uh, spent the last thirty minutes just catching up before we did this episode is we're like, okay, what could be really helpful for folks on this next episode? And we went through several different things, and we're just going to not shoot from the hip because that can be really dangerous. Um, but we've got a direction that we want to take this in because, uh, we feel like it's a, a needed Admonition, a needed, um, therapy or a needed prescription for our current cultural moment that we find ourselves in. Uh, as believers who are not really excited, quite frankly, about what we see on, uh, different extremes in our not only political environment, but, uh, primarily theological environment, and even more specifically, the, uh, the ecclesiological or or church environment that we see. And, uh, we, you know, we're in the season of lent right now. We are, um, right on the heels of Ash Wednesday, uh, that we, uh, commemorated together as a church. And, um, one of the things that I made mention of historically during the season of lent, the church has. And when I say the church, I'm talking about the, the church, all those who call out to Christ for salvation. That is what I'm talking about when I mention the church. Um, and so the, the church, historically, since the first century, even or second century, um, has identified a season of fasting, uh, before Easter. And historically, uh, it was forty days, um, to to. Anyway, anyway, all that to say, the focus of lent is to focus on prayer, to focus on fasting, and to focus on almsgiving. And one of the things I think a lot of times when it comes to lent, people see, you know, a a downcast countenance. I mean, people are walking around with ashes on their forehead and people are walking around trying to think through, okay, what advice do I want to give up? Or what what good thing even is one of the one of the ways that we talk about it at Redeemer is what is a good thing that we can actually give up. And the reason why we give them up. And I try to make mention multiple times is we don't give these things up because we're earning anything, and we don't give things up just because it's hard, but we actually give things up to provide and make space in our own hearts and in our own lives for God to do a work. And a lot of times, you know, it is a it is a great gift that God gives us food that is delicious to eat. But sometimes we can. We can be so hyper focused on our eating regimen that we, uh, don't have time and space and energy to focus on just praying. And so I would love to hear just some initial thoughts that you have as it relates to, to lent, uh, maybe some correctives, uh, as people approach it. But then also, I think, positively speaking, what does lent afford us?
00:03:43 Luke: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, one of the major themes of lent is repentance. Um, you know, I mentioned this in our churches, you know, newsletter from this past week, a little reflection on on repentance. And we normally kind of think about that. Um, I don't know, it kind of has a negative connotation, I think for many of us like repentance because we're just kind of thinking about, okay, here's obviously, I have this list of sins that I've got to, uh, turn away from, and it's sort of, uh, it can feel demanding and even condemning. I think this, this, you know, message of repentance and of course, in, in, in a very real sense, to be sure, it is demanding, um, and, and it is even condemning. Right, right. But it's, it's the kind of condemnation that that leads to life, right? We have to be killed by the law before we're given new life, by the by the spirit. Um, so, you know, it certainly does strike a note of the seriousness of our sin and of God's, you know, righteous judgment against sin and the need for a turning, you know, away from from our sin. Um, but it's it's always true repentance. True biblical repentance is always, uh, layered with hope, right? No one who lacks hope will ever even think to repent. Like whenever you get to a place of, like, hopelessness, um, that's going to lead you just to caving, uh, to sin and resigning yourself to it, uh, because you don't have any real sense that, like, you could be forgiven or healed or changed, right? So that repentance is, is already always a hopeful disposition. Right? Uh, because it it has it has I mean, think about like the prodigal, right? The prodigal, uh, who who says, you know, how many of my father's hired servants have plenty to eat? You know, I'm going to go to him. And it sort of has this hope that he'll at least welcome me as a servant, if not a son. Or I think about the, you know, one of the the classic texts of lent is from from Joel two, um, which is a call to, to to fasting and to mourning. Uh, but then it sort of that little passage in and Joel ends with this, this question, who knows whether he might not relent, you know, turn and relent and leave behind him a blessing. You know, it's sort of this, this, this sort of gamble of grace, like, who knows? Like if we go to God, maybe he'll forgive us, right? You know, uh, and of course, we have much greater assurance in that in the gospel that that that he will and and that he does. Right. Uh, but it's that it's that hope like that that's laced in with repentance that I think really ought to orient our, our hearts during this season. And so it's not just, uh, about, you know, making ourselves feel really bad. Uh, you know, over all the things that we've done that's sinful. It's not even just about, like, making a list of things to turn away from, although that may be a part, right, but it's mainly about. Reorienting of our hearts toward God. You know, I mean, most people have heard preachers say this by now that, uh, you know, the the Greek word for repentance is metanoia, which means to change. A change of mind, um, which is really kind of more than just like the intellectual part of ourselves. It's a change of heart, like, it's a it's a it's a it's a paradigm shift, right? Where we, we're no longer orienting our, our lives around our own selfish desires. But we're, we're seeking to return to the father. You know, like in the, in the parable, parable of the prodigal. Um, we're we're seeking to come home to God, uh, with the hope that he will receive us, welcome us, bless us, heal us, cleanse us, you know, bind up our wounds. Um, so really, even that message of repentance, uh, even though it has this sort of harsh edge, is also just layered with enormous hope.
00:07:54 Matt: Yeah, it really is an invitation, right, that God gives us. I even think, uh, as we looked at Isaiah twenty nine just a few weeks ago, that it says in returning or in repentance and rest, you will find your salvation. And I do think even in that passage that you were mentioning, I love that in that fasting does not oblige or obligate God to do something like it. It really is throwing yourself on his mercy and saying, I'm going to trust the the judge of all the earth to do what's right. And so if if he turns from his anger, then he's he's justified and right in doing that. If he doesn't, he's justified and right in doing that. And so there's got to be something deeper that Scripture is pushing us towards as it relates to fasting as other other than you, fast so that you can move the hand of God. Right? It's actually, I even think of C.S. Lewis where he's like this may this may not be his quote, but it's at least in the Shadowlands movie where he's where, um, what's the name of the actor who played him? Do you remember? Um, yes. Anthony Hopkins. Yes. I don't pray. Uh, so that I can change God's mind. But I pray so that I will change my mind. Like in in fasting. What? What can happen I've found, uh, is that I actually begin to be more sensitive to the spiritual realities that are bombarding me every day. But because I'm thinking about fifty other things, uh, I can't be attuned to. And so what fasting does is it actually allows me to rest. It allows me to, uh, be more centered. It allows in on what really matters. And I think that, you know, as we think of fasting, it's not necessarily what I do, although it is that but I would I would even say it's not Primarily even what I do. But it's in it's it's God's invitation to me to be more attuned to what he's doing in the world. And we, you know, even, you know, we could go at it, uh, physiologically, when we're fasting our, our brain, all the all the blood is not rushing to our stomach to, to process that food, but our brains are actually firing. Like, right now I'm in a fasted state. I don't typically eat breakfast. Uh, just anybody's curious. I do sometimes, but typically don't. And what happens is my brain right now is firing on all cylinders because I'm not, like, processing all that food. And I think by way of analogy, when we're fasting, our spiritual senses are firing on all cylinders because we're a little bit more attuned. We can see a little bit more clearly what what God's doing in the world. One of the things, too, I think that's fascinating, I love about lent, Luke, is that there is this fasting and repentance element so that we can be free to actually go do something with it. So in other words, uh, the third, uh, leg on that stool is almsgiving. And I think that, yes, in some ways it's yeah, you're giving by and negating what's in your bank account by giving to something else. But I do think it underneath the surface, what's happening when we're fasting, we actually are able to then say, because you were made to do something, you were made to give something to someone else, and that there's where you find your life. And and I do think this Lenten season, what I'm encouraging people to do, and even as I ended my sermon on Sunday, is that that a healthy church, a humble church, is marked by, uh, spirit imbued, spirit empowered acts of service. And I think a lot of times we, we can think, oh, lent is just me getting really hyper focused on my issues, when in fact it's yes, yes and amen. Repent of your sin, but look outside. Look outside of yourself. Look at the person who's begging on the on the on the corner. Look outside of yourself to the person who's hurting and the homeless person, or even the neighbor in the pew who needs a word of encouragement, give something to them. And so much of our evangelical experience is sin management. But all sin is is, it's it's simply a hindrance to being what God created us to be in the garden in the first place, to be image bearers of God. And I would really encourage people, whoever's listening to this, to to look at this Lenten season, not just as a matter of negation, but what is something you can add in your life that is positive, that actually calls you to something, to a higher purpose than just saying no to that sin? Like what can you say yes to in this Lenten season that God would say by laying down your life negation, you actually gain your life, you know?
00:12:42 Luke: Yeah. It's like it sort of reminds me of that story that Jesus tells about the the person who's healed of an evil spirit, you know. Um, so that, you know, the spirit leaves and goes in waterless places and returns and finds its, its home. You know, the soul of the person that it previously possessed. You know, clean and in order and swept and and by implication, empty, you know. Um, and then, you know, he brings seven more, uh, even even more evil spirits with him to occupy the house. Like, I think the point of that story is that, you know, it's not enough to sort of rid yourself of vice. You know, if you're not filling your soul with the life of God, uh, you're even you're even more vulnerable. Right. To to the demonic attacks. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, it's the Christian life is this dynamic of mortification putting sin to death and vivification being made alive to righteousness and virtue. And so and, you know, even, uh, if you, if you, if you want to focus on your vices and that's something that's important to you as it should be. Um, one of the antidotes, um, to vice is to practice virtue, right. So that if you struggle with gluttony fast. Right. If you struggle with greed, give, you know, um, and so, like, even practicing those virtues helps you put to death the vice. Right. So but but it's not. The point is just to say it's not. It's not just about our own private spirituality. Um, but it's about. It is. It is about that. It is about like, um, you know, our spiritual formation in Christ likeness. But that, of course, issues forth in a, in a life of, of love and good deeds. I mean, the, the, you know, spiritual writers, you know, from time immemorial have emphasized that the Christian life is both contemplative and active, right? So it includes, yes, of course, our drawing near to God and union with him. That's foundational, so that we can live the lives that God has called us to in love and good deeds. And so it's not either or. And I think sometimes we can get so focused on one or the other. And I mean, different parts of the church struggle differently, you know, like, you know, you know, more progressive ends of the spectrum might really be focused on social justice and kind of public deeds of righteousness. Um, and not as concerned about moral issues, you know, um, in terms of, you know, personal morality and holiness. But sometimes evangelicals can be so focused on, you know, our own kind of personal problems that we we lose sight of the fact that God is that holiness is becoming like God, and that means service to others. You know, I was just reading this past week the passage from Leviticus that that that says one of the many passages that that says, be ye holy, for I, the Lord your God, is holy. Um, and the way that that then the the passage then spells out what that looks like is, um, justice to the poor. You know, and not not mistreating your neighbor and and judging with equity in the courts and, you know, like it had to do with our, our obligations towards other people. You know. Yeah. Um, it's not to say that like, your private moral formation is unimportant. Um, but it's both and. Right. It's both your own soul and also going outside of yourself and service to others.
00:16:17 Matt: Yeah. I'm reminded of Isaiah fifty eight. This is a passage that I will often talk about when I talk about fasting. Is that, um, well, I'll just read it. It's Isaiah fifty eight, verse three. Uh, the people of God ask, uh, ask this, this question. So they say, why have we fasted and you see it not speaking to God. Why have we humbled ourselves and you take no knowledge of it? And then this is the response that I that God gives through the prophet Isaiah. Behold, in the day of your fast you seek your own pleasure and oppress all your workers. Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight, and to hit with a wicked fist. Fasting like yours this day will not make your voice to be heard on high. Is such the fast that I choose a day for a person to merely humble himself. Is it to bow down his head like a reed, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Will you call this a fast and a day accept day acceptable to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I choose? And here it comes. And it's not just like no food, no get. Get as much pain as you can, right? Like, no, it's actually to fill like to do something he says. Is not this the fast that I choose to loose the bonds of wickedness. To undo the straps of the yoke. To let the oppressed go free and to break every yoke. Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house? When you see the naked to cover him and not to hide yourself from your own flesh. Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily. Your righteousness shall go before you, and the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. I think it's just a beautiful picture that you know Jesus. This is the the admonition, the life that Jesus lived, uh, when he also rebuked. He says, you all your hearts are far from me. You're honoring me with your lips, but your hearts are far from me. And I think that in so many ways, the season of lent for me, uh, is is looking at my sin. Right? But primarily looking at Jesus's example of what it means to live in the world. Right? To how can I be a positive, uh, for lack of a better word, a positive influence in the world. And I mean that with all the biblical import that I can. And I think in so many ways, Luke, what I, what I see Christians right now like, and I think the pendulum has swung in a good way for people to to admit their weaknesses, to admit their frailties and, and really kind of do the work of introspection. But I think we can get lost if we go into our own heart too deeply. Right. Like we that's a that's a maelstrom of problems right there. If all I'm doing is going in because I'm going to keep picking myself apart. That's got to be step one. But really the, the the step two is getting outside of your own head space and your own. Like what are my own issues. And to be able to move into more of a growing up aspect of the Lord calls us to maturity as Christians. And I think lent allows us to to strip ourselves of some of these things that can bog us down so that we can actually run with swiftness. Uh, and to consider, how can I relieve the suffering of others? How can I live? How can I give my life away to other people? Um. And that's really what I've been thinking about. This during this lent is as we're on the front end of it, of how can I grow up? How can I become more Matt? How can I become more of what God has created me to be in Christ Jesus with my own personality and my own gifting? And how can I do more of that, uh, for the sake of others, as opposed to just being a better version of myself, for myself, for bragging rights, you know? Right.
00:20:17 Luke: Yeah. And I think one of the things that might be helpful for our listeners and, and just for us as we talk through this is, uh, because that can all of that can seem kind of overwhelming. And, um. Yeah, I mean, maybe that's the best word, like, just. Yeah, convicting and overwhelming, right? Well, I've got. Does this mean I've got, like, to do more stuff, right? And, and we already have schedules that are stretched thin. And especially like the older you get, you have kids and burdens and, you know, like, time is not, uh, endless, you know, um, endlessly available. And so I think one of the things that might help us is just in lent is sort of an invitation into this as well, is like, just just start small. You know, like, I mean, even on, like, fasting, you know, like, you know, if you're not used to fasting, um, no one's asking you, uh, to do a forty day water fast, you know, which would, you know, be extreme, right? Uh, but what if you just fasted from one meal a week? You know, I mean, that's what I. This is what I encourage students to do. Like, whenever I talk about fasting, it's like, just take one lunch a week and fast for that, for that one meal. I mean, that that's not extreme. It's not too demanding. You'll feel it, you know, like if you if you push through that hour and instead of, uh, eating, you pray, you know, whatever. I mean, you're going to feel the hunger pangs, but just start small. Right. And the same thing with giving, you know, like, if you don't, maybe you don't have a lot of money to give. Um, take ten bucks. Take take whatever money you were going to spend on that meal. Um, maybe you're going to go out with friends, skip that meal, pray, take that money and give it to your church, or give it to a local charity. Uh, that does good gospel work, you know? Um, so just kind of starting small. The same thing with our time, you know, like, maybe you don't have you don't have time to invest, like a new three hour a week ministry, you know, um, maybe just call somebody once a week to check in on them, see how you can pray for them. Maybe take one of those meals that you are going to eat and invite a friend out, you know, for, for for lunch or for coffee, you know, um, you know, maybe take a month, a day, a month to volunteer at the local homeless mission downtown. You know, we have one here in Anderson called the Lot Project that does good gospel work among the homeless in our town. Uh, and just go ask them what they need and maybe take a Saturday a month to do that. Or even just a Saturday a quarter, right? I mean, like, again, you don't want to make it. You don't want to make it, like, not demanding at all. Like it make it like super easy where it's like, not really even a sacrifice. You know, that's not what I'm saying either. But like, I think sometimes we can get so overwhelmed and again, kind of so convicted that like, man, I'm just you sort of feel condemned, like I'm not doing enough, you know? Um, and that's not the message, right? The message is not to burden people, but to say, start small and just see where that takes you. Again, the Lord, the Lord tells us that it's more blessed to give than to receive. Try him, you know, test him on that, you know, see if that's true and then pray for more opportunities. You know, as you go, you know. And another thing, just while I'm on this is also, you know, all different kinds of people in the church, right? So there I think some people have, um, overworked consciences, and some people probably have consciences that are seared. Right. And, and almost never get convicted of anything, you know, so like, that's a spectrum, um, that, you know, we all of us who who teach and preach in the church have to kind of account for that. Um, but if you are on the more sensitive end of the spectrum in terms of your conscience, like thinking, man, I've got, you know, I feel condemned that I'm not doing enough. Another thing like you might just take stock of is, um, what are the ways that you're already doing service to others that you maybe aren't recognizing? Uh, and not as a way to sort of alleviate, you know, your conscience, but as a way to give thanks to God. Like, look at the grace that is already present in your life. Um, we had a a friend and and, you know, real mentor and guide at our church in Louisville, uh, our pastor and his wife. Um, and one of the things that she would sometimes emphasize is, um, whenever you are condemning yourself, like, feeling like, like feelings of self-condemnation and almost like self-loathing, um, very often that's actually, um, uh, the sin of not recognizing and not giving thanks for the grace of God that's in your life. You know, it's sort of like it's like a false pride, like self-pity can be a false pride. And just sometimes we just need to stop and say, look, look, look at the ways you're already serving, like you're serving your family. You're serving the people you work with. You're serving your church. You're involved in a community group. You know, you are are volunteering your time as you can. Um, and that's not again, that's not to say, hey, look at us. Like we're doing great. You know, like, we don't need to worry about doing anything more, but it's just to say, look at the grace of God that's already at work in your life. You know, and if you feel convicted to give even more. Again, start, start a little bit smaller. Push in a little bit further. Uh, but don't see it as something that's that's like a burden or a condemnation.
00:26:00 Matt: Yeah, I do think and if you have trouble identifying those things, I don't think it's too much to turn to somebody in church and say, hey, can you help me? Um, I'm like, what do I do? Well, you know, or like, where do you see? Uh, or even I would even encourage people start with you modeling that, like, like, turn to somebody and say, hey, you know what? I really recognize this in your life. And it's a, it's a it's a gift to me that that you consistently show up when you say you're going to show up, that you consistently pray for people when you say you're going to pray for people and these kind of things, I think being able to to demonstrate that to other people begins to create the kind of culture that we want, particularly at Redeemer. And that's a lot of times what I, what I tell folks is that a lot of people go and I think I got this from Andy Crouch. He said, um, a lot of times people go looking for the community that they want. And he says, more often than not, what needs to happen is that we need to form the community that we want. And so that takes a proactivity, right? So going and identifying graces in other people's lives. And then I also think having a trusted person, um, you know, I can I can be given over to, to self-condemnation and like, beating myself up like, man, I'm. There's so much more I got to do. Look at all to be able to go to somebody and say, hey, I'm struggling with a little, you know, beating myself up. Can you just tell me one encouraging thing? And I think that, in fairness, there are people that will do that, but they just don't know. And I think a lot of times people can make that assumption that, well, uh, people just don't care. It's like, no, just people don't know that you need a you know, that you need a word of encouragement. I don't think and I think that's a really humble thing to do, quite frankly, is to say, hey, I need some encouragement. Can can you just tell me one thing if that that I'm doing okay, or that you see God's work in my life and that could that could also, um, that can also bring you to a place of healing and help to that. So.
00:28:09 Luke: Yeah, I mean, that's a great that's a great word like that. Like, what if we created a culture of encouragement in the church, you know, because I feel like in our I mean in my job very often it encouragement is is hard to come by. And it's not because people don't care. You know, it's just they don't think, you know, to to to encourage people, you know, like you don't you're not always getting. And that's probably true in every job. Like your boss is not always coming to you and saying, you're doing a great job. Keep it up. Um, and I mean, again, like in, in academia, like, it's kind of it can be cutthroat, even in Christian academia. It can be kind of a cutthroat business where it's like every man for himself and, you know, you're trying to distinguish yourself. And, you know, it's rare for somebody to come up to you and be like, hey, man, like you, you. I just want to tell you, like, you're a really good writer, you know, like, you communicate well and I've benefited from it, you know? Um, but, like, what if the church became that kind of place where, like, we like, we weren't, like, starving for affirmation because we were already filled with, uh, you know, just we were just sort of swimming in and encouragement and correction right where needed. Like, you know, it's not it's not not one or the other. But like, sometimes I feel like we, we we can tend to emphasize like we need to start correcting each other more, you know, um, but if that's not coming out of like a baseline of, like, encouragement, that's going to feel really like accusatory, you know what I mean? Like, but like, what if we had, like, a space where people just felt not, not like they're they're being flattered or having their ego stroked, but just saying, like, be strengthened, like in the Lord, that I see this at work in your life. Um, and, and I really appreciate, you know, what you're doing. And that way you don't have to wonder, you know, like, am I doing enough? Um, like, you're you're you're strengthened by that affirmation, uh, and that that will give you the wherewithal to, to do more as God gives opportunity.
00:30:08 Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great way to end. And and I will say this, this, this because I've heard this is called glazing. Like there's a, there's a, there's a word for it now. And I think glazing is basically just, uh, flattery. And so this is not flattery, but I am grateful for you, Luke. I'm grateful for your faithfulness and your writing and your clarity, um, that you, uh, write for people to understand, not to show your erudite knowledge, grateful for your willingness to step in and preach joyfully. Uh, even this Sunday, when you preach and you, your your your willingness to teach a twenty five person Sunday school class for no pay just because you love Jesus and you love the people that are in that room. And I'm grateful for your your friendship. And I'm grateful that you, um, have humbled yourself, uh, in front of me multiple times and asking for help. And that is a a beautiful picture of God's grace in your life. So I'm grateful for you. And, uh, like I said at the beginning, it's a privilege to call you a friend. And so take take it for what it is, listener. This is not me just glazing. This is me genuinely being grateful to God for for Luke. And, uh, what a what an amazing place it would be if we characterized lent by not just me and my sin going to go to battle with sin, but like turning, like turning the other way and going to fight against the and pushing light into dark places. And you know, instead of church being a place where, uh, nobody's saying hi to me and that's a real thing, but at the same time, being able to go and say, but these people love Jesus, the same person that saved me, the same person who loves me is is giving me these people. And and, uh, if we approach church that way as a place of like, we're having your eyes set out of how I can encourage somebody else and and bring life to them, because then you're not so self focused, right? Like nobody's encouraging me. Well, are you encouraging anyone? And that's not a blight on anyone. It's just a genuine question I have to ask myself of, like, well, nobody's really giving me an attaboy. Well, maybe you can help be that attaboy for somebody else, you know? So.
00:32:31 Luke: And that again, that gives life to you, you know?
00:32:33 Matt: Yes.
00:32:34 Luke: Whenever you give life to others, that.
00:32:36 Matt: one hundred percent.
00:32:36 Luke: It's more blessed you're going to be happy. Uh, if you bless others.
00:32:40 Matt: Just try. I think, you know, just try it. Just try it one time. It may be awkward the first time you offer a word of encouragement, exhortation to somebody, but that's okay. Anytime you learn to ride a bike, there's going to be wobbly. You know you need some training wheels. So these consider these your training wheels. Just find one thing and even just text somebody a word of encouragement. Maybe, maybe looking at somebody in the eye and telling them that maybe a little, little high hurdle for you. Um, but maybe a lower hurdle would be just sending a text and saying, you know what? I was just thinking, God, for you today because you are X, you know, and filling in the blank for what they encourage you with. So. Well, let's let's go ahead and, uh, end our, our time on this high note of, of lent being not just a time of negation, but a time of, of adding in some ways. Um, Luke, would you do us a favor just closing us in a word of prayer?
00:33:39 Luke: Yeah, sure. Our father, we thank you for the invitation to repent. Um, the good news of the gospel begins with this invitation. So obviously, this must be for our good, um, that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and the entryway into it is repentance. And so we pray that you would give us this hopeful, uh, expectation that as we turn away from the things that are not really bringing us joy and happiness and are invited into relationship with you, Lord Jesus. Uh, that you would just give us hope and joy in that and meet us where we are and all of our spiritual journeys, uh, different, um, places along the way, um, in our own lives. But we pray that you would meet us where we are and give us strength for today, uh, to do even small things, um, even short prayers, even small fasts, even small gifts and and sacrifices of our time that you would meet us in that and bless us in it and and make our church, uh, in the other churches who may be listening to this podcast, uh, places of encouragement, um, where people can find, uh, respite for their souls in the gospel of Jesus Christ, in whose name we pray. Amen.
00:34:59 Speaker 3: Amen, Amen.